Talk:Beckett Brown International
Hi R Smith,
As I previously noted (see above), the protocol at Sourcewatch is that where referenced material is deleted, a brief explanatory note should address each substantial deletion.
I note that subsequently you have deleted much of the same material with the only explanations being "I worked for the firm in an admin capacity for 4 years and I am correcting information that is mistated or wrong. Mr. Dodd has mistated much info as a basis for revenge" and "Previous information was inaccurate. SourceWatch continues to post inaccurate information, bringing their organization into question, and possibly a legal situation". (These comments were posted in the summary bar and not on the talk page but I appreciate that, as a new contributor, you may not be aware of the difference between the two).
Rather that have you continuing to make changes which others revert because they don't understand why the changes are being made or what the evidentiary basis for the deletions are, I have gone back through your most recent deletions and checked the original Mother Jones article which is the cited source.
But before I address your specific deletions, I'll respond to your statement that "Mr. Dodd has mistated much info as a basis for revenge".
The original Mother Jones article made clear that Dodd had a falling out with others at the company and launched an unsuccessful legal actions against some of those involved in the company. This wasn't mentioned on the previous version of our article on BBI, so I have now incorporated this so readers can be aware of the background on how the documents came to be public. However, I would also point out that the Mother Jones article is based largely on what the documents state rather than claims by Dodd. And where it cites information from Dodd, comments have been sought from those named for their response. So, even if Dodd's motive was "revenge" as you claim, the article is not based on what he said without those points being tested.
As for the specific deletions you made:
- You deleted the sentence "background checks and performed due diligence for the Carlyle Group, the Washington-based investment firm" - this is clearly stated in the original MJ article. I also note that no-one from the Carlyle Group or anywhere else has challenged this statement in the online comments section below the MJ article;
- You also deleted the statement that George Ferris was a principal of the firm. The original MJ article states that he was an "office bearer" so I have changed the text to mirror the magazine's description. I also note that neither Ferris or anywhere else has challenged this statement in online comments section below the MJ article;
- You also changed the text to state that John Dodd was the Chairman and that Richard Beckett was the President. I have amended the text in that section to reflect how MJ states their roles and history with BBI.
- You deleted the inclusion of Jim Daron. I have added the note that MJ describes him as "a Washington police officer working for BBI." MJ includes him based on a document it cites. I also note that neither Daron or anywhere else has challenged this statement in online comments section below the MJ article;
- You also deleted the inclusion of Mary Lou Sapone from the personnel list. I have added that note "who, according to Mother Jones, was retained by BBI and "recruited a paid operative in Louisiana to infiltrate an environmental group called CLEAN" to this page to make clear why she is included on the page. I also note that MJ include her in the article based on BBI emails. I also note that neither Sapone or anywhere else has challenged this statement in online comments section below the MJ article;
I hope those additions help clarify why the material is included on the SourceWatch page and the basis for its retention on tha page.
However, if despite the changes I have made and the explanatory notes, you still consider that there is inaccurate material on the page, I would ask you to post a note on the specific points you believe to be wrong on this page Talk:Beckett Brown International. To avoid ongoing editing to-ing and fro-ing, I would ask that you do not make changes to the article page but post them to the page link indicated in the preceding sentence. I will review any notes you post and make any corrections I think are reasonable and/or supported by verifiable information within 24 hours. Then I will post a further edit note to the above talk page so you can follow what, if any, further changes I have made. That way we can hopefully promptly agree on a page that we all consider fair and accurate.
I look forward to your help in this matter.--Bob Burton 23:54, 4 May 2008 (EDT)
Further Edit notes
Despite requesting that User: R Smith only write on the talk page to expedite finalising the article page she/he made further unreferenced and unsupported changes to the article page. Accordingly. I have protected the article page so that only sysops can further edit it. I have also reverted all R Smith's changes.
In making two changes to the article R Smith wrote "If you are going to post info on the web that affects peoples lives and families. DO you homeowork and make sure it" and "(SW: You almost got it right. Dodd has as much involvement in the business as Rakowski and Ward. Please check your information. Ferris was NEVER an official in the company and only worked there briefly)".
R Smith made the following changes, all of which I have reverted.
1. "All four of the original partners invested funds in the venture." This may be true but it is an entirely unreferenced addition and was not in the original Mother Jones article. Nor do we know whether R Smith knows or can support the point with any evidence.
2. R Smith deleted the clause "and George Ferris, a "former naval special operations officer and an expert in demolitions." from the sentence
- Dodd told Mother Jones magazine that shortly after their initial meeting, Beckett introduced him to Paul Rakowski, "a recently retired Secret Service agent" and later on to another Secret Service agent, Joseph A. Masonis and George Ferris, a "former naval special operations officer and an expert in demolitions."
There was no explanation as to why this clause was deleted so I have re-instated it.
In the summary bar she/he also posted a note "Ferris was NEVER an official in the company and only worked there briefly"
That is not what it stated in the Mother Jones article. Nor do we know whether R Smith knows this for sure. It is also worth nothing that there has been no comment along those lines posted in response to the Mother Jones article.
3. R Smith added a sentence after the section mentioning that after losing the court case that Dodd released internal BBI documents "Including some documents that are fake, and created for purposes of revenge."
This is entirely unsupported by any evidence. Accordingly, I reverted the change.
4. R Smith also added a statement to the listing of Phil Giraldi that he "was dismissed from the firm". Again, no evidence is provided to support this claim. Accordingly, I reverted the change.
Unless R Smith can provide evidence to support her/his proposed changes, I plan on leaving the page as it is.
I also note that R Smith has at least relented from trying to delete the mentions of the Carlyle group, Sapone and Daron. --Bob Burton 00:21, 6 May 2008 (EDT)