Talk:Doublespeak
I took out "Death Squad = enemy soldiers" -- it was like saying that "Concentration Camp" is doublespeak for "POW camp."
"Death squad" has a specific, useful meaning. It originated to describe a grisly phenomenon in countries like Kissinger-era El Salvadore , Guatamala, and Chile, and Greece under the Generals, where the military is used primarily for quelling internal dissent, rather than fighting wars. A list of "enemies" is announced on television. Members of the army, acting unofficially, take these lists as unofficial execution orders, while off-duty form themselves into unofficial execution squads, and "disappear" the people named. There is no record of any action; no recourse for the families of the disappeared. TJ, just passing thru.
I have to admit adding some tongue-in-cheek "newbies" but they are quite appropriate, I think. Artificial Intelligence 3/31/03 14:08 (EST) PS .. need some definitions, especially to rogue nation and rogues.
Comment: as much as I enjoy tongue-in-cheek, I'll have to say that for the purpose of SourceWatch, the 'victory' definition detracts from the value of the others.
-- Maynard 19:48 31 Mar 2003 (EST)
Comment to AI: I really enjoy your enthusiasm and perspective. I see that you've replaced your definitions with ellipses (...); perhaps the ellipses could hyperlink to definitions in this talk page, or a new Doublespeak/in-Cheek page; or maybe better yet a new and separate page of Doublespeak/in-Cheek (or other name). Just thinking aloud here in an undercaffeinated consideration of whether your definition of 'globalization' is doublespeak or plain speak, without duplicity. We certainly don't just want to list all of our favorite "triggers" <G>
Again, I'm just musing, not suggesting. --Maynard 07:59 1 Apr 2003 (EST)
Perhaps the military-related doublespeak should be separated from the regular PR doublespeak. --Menchi
Could newspeak, doublespeak, and yada-yada-yadaspeak be the trouble I have forming thoughts about something like our unprovoked war in Iraq or the war on liberal thought? I just don't have the vocabulary to form thoughts because the language is so squishy with ever shifting meanings, and ...oh look...a butterfly...I got to buy a butterfuly net.... is dinner about ready? What was I thinking about...oh yeah why I can't stay focused while thinking about the unthinkable.
Question: Do I need a head doctor or will turning off the television/radio and learning a foreign language be the best advise. Ray
Is there a difference between doublespeak and euphemism? Regards, Fuckhead.
While I share many of the biases of the person (people?) who wrote the list of doublespeak terms, I can't help but think this person is engaging in a bit of doublespeak themselves...for example, while "terrorist" is a vague, catch-all term that is quite often ab/used by the establishment for propoganda reasons, saying that "terrorist=freedom fighter" is in its own way just as biased and propogandistic as a cop calling anti-globalization protesters "terrorists" ("freedom fighter" itself is as much of a vague, catch-all term as "terrorist"...so it's like the author is providing a doublespeak term to define a doublespeak term...double-doublespeak!). By saying that "terrorist=freedom fighter", the author is trying to give a positive connotation to a term that usually has a negative connotation. I don't know what the exact dictionary definition of a terrorist is, but it would probably be more fair to say a terrorist is "someone who employs terror to cause political change". While it could be said that organizations like the CIA or Mossad perpetrate terrorist acts, I'm sure we can also all agree that a Muslim fundamentalist intent on blowing up civilian passenger flights with the aim of setting up a worldwide Muslim theocracy isn't much of a "freedom fighter". Regards, Mr. Fuckface.
I deleted affirmative action defined as discrimination based on race. "Affirmative action" is a rather vague term but it normally is used to mean the granting of limited preference to members of groups who have been previously discriminated against. The entry reflected a bias against affirmative action.
I tend to agree that this list has been overgrown by an ivy of bias. Communicication=propaganda? That is a bit weak. The problem is that the accusation of "doublespeak" has some propaganda value of its own. The tactic is to claim the literary high ground, accusing an opponent of masking facts behind fancy words. The problem with accusations of doublespeak is that they often mask a double standard. Those who occuse others of doublespeak often have their own collection of freindly euphemisms that help make controversial topics more acceptable. I suspect the person who posted "affirmative action" recognized the double standard at play and attempted to expose the duplicity. If the phrase were posted with an accurate and accepted definition, I would gladly let it stand.
Consider the term "terrorism." A text titled Science and Technology of Terrorism and Counterterrorism offers a definition generally accepted in many political and administrative quarters that draws a narrow line between, for example, Hammas, which it defines as terrorist, and Israel, whose tactics by that book's definition are not terrorist. I had trouble with the definition, but the chapter-one effort by a scholarly text to define the term suggests the word does reflect attempts to describe a unique and specific form of warfare. Those who do not accept the classification have a good argument that the classification is propaganda, but those are legitimate differences, not evidence that "terrorist" is strictly used as doublespeak for "freedom fighter". Again, the problem is with the term "doublespeak." It is not an academically accepted concept and whatever effort this article makes to offer a fair and accurate definition will likely run up against the biases that make the term a bit too loose for academia.
-prpgtr
Another problem with this article's definition of doublespeak is it presumes motivation. Doublespeak is propaganda, so it says, if it is intended as such. The problem there is that we can only guess or ass-u-me the motive's of others. A classic tendency, the fundamental attribution error, is to see the motives of others as devious while assuming one's own motives or the motives of one's allies to be pure and worthy. When this happens, our own egos' beleif in our own rightness can interfere with what could otherwise be a useful understanding of circumstances
- prpgtr
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I think "prpgtr" makes some good points about this article being "overgrown by an ivy of bias." I would welcome someone making a good-faith effort to clean it up a bit, culling out or adding clarity some of the more tendentious examples. For example, not all "communication" is "propaganda," but clearly there are cases where the word "communication" is used as a euphemism for activities that should be fairly regarded as propaganda.
What I've tried to do when contributing examples here is to first post the example itself with a brief definition in the Doublespeak article itself. Then I create a separate, more detailed article that provides sufficient space to explain why this particular word usage should be considered doublespeak. See, for example, the axis of evil article.
I agree with prpgtr's observation that some subjectivity enters into the question of whether a term should or should not be considered "doublespeak," but nevertheless the concept can be useful as a way of examining the ways that language gets used in tendentious ways. As for whether the concept is sufficiently rigorous for academia, several books about doublespeak have been written by William Lutz, a professor at Rutgers.
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I trust Lutz has authored a scholarly review of doublespeak, and I would probably be better positioned to edit this page if I reviewed his book. But even then, I suspect his views of doublespeak might stir controversy among a broad cross section of linguists and sociologists. Does he include HUMINT and SIGINT as "doublespeak"? Problem is, these words were not coined for use toward a target audience in a persuasive effort; they arose from a routine military practice of simplifying commonly used words. HUMINT does not mean spies. It might include some of the work product produced by spies, but it can also include reports compiled by a variety of human sources, such as that obtained from POW's, (sometimes aka "illegal combatants") or simply from overt, perhaps casual dialogue with anyone who might be "in the know." Likewise, "wiretaps" is a poor summary for the source of signals intelligence. Sometimes wires are tapped, other times, signals are intercepted by radio recievers (such as with ECHELON. At other times, signal intelligence might involve monitoring only the frequency and location of signals, as could be used to identify troop movements. US law enforcement sources often get warrants for "PIN registers" which record, from a telephone company office, only the source or destination of calls to or from a particular number. The terms seem to be intended to 'differentiate' signals intelligence from human intelligence with reasonable precision, NOT to gloss over the fact that some HUMINT sometimes comes, as everyone who uses the term knows, from "spies".
So, if Lutz says HUMINT and SIGINT are doublespeak, I'll leave them, or if anyone rushes in to defend the terms, I'll leave it. Otherwise, consider those terms targeted for removal.
In general, these examples would be stronger if they were accompanied by some context that helps explain when the term is doublespeak, who uses it, when it might be benign, and perhaps citation of an example where it is actually used. 'prpgtr'
p.s. - What I am implying is we sometimes call things doublespeak not because anyone intended to deceive us, but rather, by refusing to parse the context and intent behind a term, we are attempting to deceive ourselves by our misperception of a speaker's intent. This does not promote precise diplomatic communication.
This article preys on the gullible to direct prejudice toward people who use language creatively. There is no evidence presented here, for example, that the term "terminate with extreme prejudice" was ever used outside of Hollywood. Other terms, "pre-owned" for example, are simply flexible use of a language that offers a variety of ways to make the same statement. There is absolutely no evidence presented here of intent to decieve, except for the intent of those who describe routine speach as doublespeak for the purpose of politically damaging the speaker.
ah .. now I've got it ... "speach" .. "speaker" .. always wondered where that came from ....
And a group that destroys property, killing thousands of civilians for a political ideal rejected by those holding similar ideals more willing to comprimise is not a "criminal extremist organization" while someone who responds to the invitation that "Anyone including you can edit an article now" is a vandal if some industry funded (CNN/Tuner>CMD) executive (SR) needs to squash dissent.