Changes

Jump to navigation Jump to search

Talk:Propaganda

2,443 bytes added, 08:47, 24 October 2005
not sure that's a helpful addition
I suggest someone else more familiar with the [[Noam Chomsky]] and [[Edward Herman]] model tackle this next. As it stands it is influenced more by the [[Jane Jacobs]] and [[George Lakoff]] views, which are now covered better under [[secession]] and [[conceptual metaphor]]. Although secession relies on conceptual metaphor, and moral politics relies on conceptual metaphor, and point of view relies somewhat on conceptual metaphor, I have tried to leave these concepts relate mostly through [[propaganda]] self, the core concept here. That [[propaganda]] and [[political economy]] have a necessary relationship is one way to characterize the theory of [[moral politics]] itself. If one rejects this, one might reject this present article defining propaganda, in favour of one more directly descended from Chomsky and Herman. I look forward to edit wars on this, the more so now that there are three different propaganda detection strategies related. I don't see how one can separate these from [[point of view]] ultimately. This is very very complex. As I said, someone who knows the Chomsky/Herman model to the point of dogma should try to challenge this. It's an extraordinarily hard thing to write about, propaganda, when your audience is (a) global (b) not used to thinking of itself as having any [[systemic bias]] of [[English-speaking peoples]] and of [[Internet]] pre-requisites, and (c) possibly of all political stripes and all possible variations on the question of "what is truth". So taking an anti-imperial view may be just out the only thing one can really do in this article.
----
 
== 1920s to 1940s ==
 
The [[Jacques Ellul]] ideas are interesting, probably the the period from the late 1920s to the early 1940s needs more coverage. [[Jacques Ellul]] talks about "molding the man" or something like that, did not the Soviets and the Nazis use this kind of propaganda on their own people (with different content of course)?
Also, it is considered [[propaganda]] to describe some one else's views as [[propaganda]], does it work that way too?
I hate to take this to a ridiculous point, but if every one accuses every one else of using [[propaganda]], then who is actually using [[propaganda]]?
These are serious questions. May be I do not understand the term well enough.
----
The above stated question, <i>"if every one accuses every one else..."</i> is focused right at the core of these issues of veracity, trust, integrity, and more. Political discourse in the U.S. isn't even discourse any more; it is two different camps on opposite sides of a vast chasm, slinging slurs and unsubstantiated allegations at each other. That's why I brought in the topic of [[partisan]], particularly its definition of being contrary to the promotion of productive, rational, honest, public discourse.
 
The prevaling attitude of "we want power at any cost" is typical of [[Bush regime|the last four years in Washington]], D.C. There is a LOT of spending ("at any cost"); there are ethics challenges ([[Tom DeLay]]) which are met with rules to disregard ethics standards; the Senate passes [[Conference committee|bills which nobody has read]], and which contain [[The Homeland and Lilly Protection Act|provisions for which nobody will take responsibilty]]; the House will blatantly break its own rules in order to [[Medicare Prescription Drug Bill Vote Scandal, 2003|badger its members into conforming to the party line]] on votes. It's not "government" by the kindest of definitions; certainly not "democracy". '''It is [[partisan]].''' It is a disgrace.
<br>--[[User:Maynard|Maynard]] 22:20, 21 Dec 2004 (EST)
 
-----
 
I'm not sure that the addition of "But beware of deliberately placed lies that are repeated with the hope that people will believe it if it is repeated often enough" in the "Recognizing Propaganda" is really all that helpful. It pre-supposes that media viewers / readers recognise it as a lie when the section is about spotting plausible information designed to deceive.--[[User:Bob Burton|Bob Burton]] 04:47, 24 Oct 2005 (EDT)
developer, editor
60,576

edits

Navigation menu